GLENN BECK PROGRAM
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GLENN: How are you, Senator?

SENATOR HATCH: Doing good. How about you?

GLENN: Good. We're on air. Thank you for being on the program. I wanted to talk to you about an ethical question I had and I hope I'm going to be able to squeeze that in because I know our time with you is very tight today. I have to start with this DREAM Act because I'm looking at this DREAM Act. You at least at one time were a sponsor of this.

SENATOR HATCH: I'm a cosponsor of the one that's on the floor, too, with Durbin. The reason I am is because we've got a lot of these young people giving their lives for us over there in Iraq and if they do that, we ought to give them an opportunity to be citizens.

GLENN: Then let's pass that act. This is not -- that's not what this act is.

Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah

SENATOR HATCH: Yeah, it is to a degree. It's to help these kids. It's to help these kids that through no fault of their own were brought into this country and, of course, go to high school, one of these citizens to at least get on a track for citizenship. I think we ought to do that. I think that's the minimum we ought to do.

GLENN: Senator, look. You know I respect you, sir.

SENATOR HATCH: And I respect you, too. There's reason for disagreement on this.

GLENN: Okay. Two thoughts come to mind. First of all, this is exactly -- the message that America was trying to send Washington was we don't believe you're taking care of us in economic or physical security. You must shut the water off before you do anything else. That's why Americans refused to negotiate. They don't believe anyone in Washington is serious about security. And now it looks like you're going in at the cover of night and passing stuff anyway.

SENATOR HATCH: No, no. I agree with that. I agree with everything you said. One of the leaders in the Senate came to me and he said after the debacle that was the McCain/Kennedy bill, which it was, it was a terrible bill, and it wasn't well thought out, it was really an amnesty bill, putting 12 million people on the way to quick citizenship. Maybe not quick but at least citizenship, most of whom didn't want to be citizens, just wanted a job. And he said, what can we do now that we've lost that? I said, well, number one, I said, let's secure the borders. Let's make sure that the American people know that we're doing everything we possibly can to secure those borders. I said, number two, I said, you're going to have to have an identity card. Everybody's going to have to have a biometric Social Security card so that we don't require the businesses to do our police job for us, but if they have that card and they swipe it through a machine and says they're illegal and they then hire them, we throw the book at them. I said, number three, yeah, we have people, businesses all over this country who need workers and especially in the area of agriculture and construction and landscaping, you know, and a lot of areas where Americans aren't willing to work and we could have a guest worker program. But if you're going to do that, then don't mention the word citizenship. Citizenship has to be earned or you don't mention it.

Now in the case of the DREAM Act, it's a limited bill to help these kids who were brought in through no fault of their own who go through high school, they go into the Service or go to college and really will become constructive citizens in this area. It's very limited. It's limited to those kids that really didn't do this to themselves.

GLENN: So then why is there not a sunset on it? Why is there not a -- if you were in and you could prove that you were in by this day? I mean, it's encouraging -- you haven't stopped the water.

SENATOR HATCH: My original DREAM Act had a sunset on it. It had a limited number of kids that it would apply to. On this one, I thought it did have a sunset on it, but I'll check that out and see if it doesn't.

GLENN: The other thing, this is changing the law in '96 that said you cannot offer instate tuition unless you offer it -- my daughter has to pay out-of-state tuition but an illegal alien can pay instate tuition? How is that fair?

SENATOR HATCH: In the original bill that I found, it provided the state can grant instate tuition if the state chooses. It's strictly up to the state. Utah does choose to do that. Now, I think there are some inadequacies because I had people in Utah who were living there whose grandchildren were living in California but wanted to attend a Utah university and they said, what about our kids? And I said, well, you know, that's a good point. And I think we've got to work through these things and sometimes you bring them up on the floor to work through them.

GLENN: If I'm in Mexico and I'm a mom who just wants to feed my family, here's what I'm thinking. If I can just get in, if I can just get in, if I can just hold the line and stay in darkness for five years, my kid will be taken care of. This is encouraging people, their behavior to be wrong.

SENATOR HATCH: Well, I hope that's not the case but let me just say this to you. Do we blame the kids? Yeah, the mother's wrong.

GLENN: No, we blame Washington, Senator.

SENATOR HATCH: Well, we can blame Washington, but do we blame the kids? The answer to that should be no. If they are decent, honorable kids who actually find they are citizens, then find they can even get a job when they graduate from high school and they want to go on to college or they want to go into the military, you know, we've got to find some way of resolving these issues so that there aren't inequities, there are not injustices.

Now, I agree with you. We've got to get tough on this immigration thing. And look, I voted against the Simpson-Mazzoli bill 10 years ago. At least they called it amnesty then, you know. There were three million people granted amnesty by that bill. I said it wouldn't work. If you go back and read my statement, it applies to the McCain/Kennedy bill that was brought up on the floor and lost pan in the final analysis. And I was one of the people who led the fight against it. But that doesn't negate the fact that we can resolve some of these problems if we approach them intelligently.

GLENN: I agree with you, senator, but you and I have both talked about this, that there is a great, great distrust, there is a growing divide.

SENATOR HATCH: I agree with that.

GLENN: And by tucking this into a war bill, by not making this legislation that stands on its own but just tucked it into a war bill, it feels to the American people, oh, my gosh, you're doing it to us anyway.

SENATOR HATCH: Well, I do believe that these bills ought to be brought up straight up and down. The problem is with Durbin is that he knows there's not time enough to bring it up on a straight up and down vote and there would be all kinds of efforts to add all kinds of other language to it by especially the left. And that's -- so to a degree it's probably better he brings it up on this bill except that, you know, I think there's merit in the bill, I think there's some things that need to be changed. On the other hand let's not hold it against the kids that -- we don't want to push them into the underworld. We don't want to push them into drugs, we don't want to push them into making a living whichever way they can. No, we want them to go to school, we want them to get a college degree, we want them to serve in the military if they can.

GLENN: You and I agree on principles, we just don't agree on policies on this one, Senator.

SENATOR HATCH: You may be right on this. There's room for this. You may be right on this. It's just that I hate to see young people, who through no fault of their own are put into this predicament, not given a chance.

GLENN: I understand.

SENATOR HATCH: I believe they ought to be given a chance.

GLENN: So do I, Senator.

SENATOR HATCH: I know you do. Keep after me, I'm trying.

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