GLENN BECK PROGRAM
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

GLENN: From the White House, Tony Snow. Hello, Tony.

SNOW: You know, I've got to get myself a music bid for press conference.

GLENN: I think you should, you know? San Antonio he

SNOW: That's the one thing that we've really blown. That would be so cool.

GLENN: See, you are mocking me. You are knocking me, I know you are.

SNOW: Having been a former radio talk show host, I would have given musical appendages just to have that musical. Good stuff, man.

GLENN: I have to tell you, Tony, and you and I have spoken about this before. Why are we not producing the President in a fashion that is reminiscent of, oh, I don't know, today's technology?

SNOW: Well, we're working on it, as you know, in the press room.

GLENN: Yeah, but it's not the same. The President to be able to say, look, here's what's happening and, you know, beyond saying these are evildoers, you know, having the graphics there that show what these guys are doing and being able to keep -- I mean, America has an attention span of about 30 seconds.

SNOW: No, look. Again, feel your pain. It's why I've started putting up graphics and video and all sorts of stuff. In the press room we now have plasma screens where we can do that and we put it out on the Net. One of the things you have to -- frankly what the President or anybody who hasn't done this in the past for a living, it's a little tougher than it looks in terms of popping up graphics and being able to refer to them. I mean, you know, I spent a decade in television. So I did that sort of thing. So I think what you have to do is to build it in such a way that there can be a comfort level with the President. He has started doing it on some speeches, especially economic speeches, and I'd expect to see more of that to come. But you are absolutely right. Bottom line -- and we're starting to see this, hallelujah, is that Americans are beginning to get a graphic, a visual sense of what's going on in Iraq, and it's no longer dead Americans. It's triumphant Americans. You know, thank God. Because we've got men and women who have been performing things that are not far short of miracles over there and they deserve some credit for it rather than having Democratic leaders running around saying, it's lost; we need to get out. I mean, at a time now when it is clear that we are winning not only because of the quality of our soldiers but because of our ideals, this is the time now to realize that it's a time of choosing for the United States. Are we going to pursue a course that not only ensures national greatness but also our security in the future; or are we going to bail out and be targets for the next 60 years.

GLENN: Well, I will tell you this. It is amazing to me. I mean, since the war has started, there have been ups and downs but one thing, one thing has been constant and that is that, you know, the things that are happening, actually happening in Iraq are better than the media is telling us and now we have the "New York Times," what was it, last week or two weeks ago coming out and saying, oh, my gosh, this surge seems to be working. And now an incredible -- I mean, listen to this paragraph. Ramadi isn't interesting the world thinks it knows about Iraq. It is proof that the U.S. military is more successful than the world wants to believe. Ramadi demonstrates the large parts of Iraq, not just the Anbar province but also many other rural areas are essentially pacified today. This is news. The world doesn't hear. Ramadi, long hotbed of unrest, a city that once formed a Southwestern tip of the major Sunni triangle is now telling a different story. A story of Americans who came here as liberators, became hated occupiers and are now protectors of Iraqi reconstruction. That comes from Der Spiegel which makes the New York Times look like the American Spectator.

SNOW: [Laughter]. You know, notice that Der Spiegel thinks that it's an irritating reminder but there are two things going on. Number one, once the President announced the surge, let's talk about Ramadi. At the time the President announced the surge, they were having 40 violent episodes a day, Al-Queda on the loose. When we started dispatching troops, we started putting them on ships and planes and so on and sending them over in February, the number declined about 35 a day. Do you know what the rate of violence now is, the rate of attacks in Ramadi is today?

GLENN: Dairy say zero?

SNOW: Close to it. Less than one. Less than one. In many case it is zero. Now, two things happened. Number one, the people in Anbar province -- well, three things happened. Number one, they realized that we were there, that we had their backs. Number two, they were sick of Al-Queda. I mean, some of the butchery that has gone on under Al-Queda, slaughtering family members, bringing people in and watching them kill their kids, I mean, just absolute -- Al-Queda was trying to terrify people into joining its movement and they got sick of the tribal leaders and everybody turned against them and finally what the President has said all along, is there's something about freedom. You know, you offer freedom up to somebody, the idea that they are going to say no, well, I don't want to have any control over my destiny, I want the freedom to pursue what I want. Baloney. And so you are now seeing it in places like Ramadi where our ambassador Ryan Crocker went walking down the streets of Ramadi last week without body armor. It's a different world and it's a different world because of American might, American ideals and also the fact that the Iraqis have figured out that we didn't come to take their country but Americans are special. We actually risk our lives to save people.

GLENN: Tony.

SNOW: What?

GLENN: Let's be honest with each other. First of all, you were in the meeting that I was at two weeks ago with the President and he is a remarkable man when it comes to the war on terror.

SNOW: Yes.

GLENN: This -- I mean, I can't tell you how glad I was to see that bullhorn in hand standing next to the fire truck George Bush that I hadn't seen in quite some time. I was so happy to see that he is alive and well and fighting the war.

SNOW: Yeah.

GLENN: However let's be honest that we made judgment errors, and I think so did Pakistan, of trying to bring people into the fold. We should have shot al-Sadr in the head the moment and it didn't work and now we've changed our strategy of shoot them, secure them, and hold the area instead of shooting them and moving on, and that's what's happened. I mean, I think that's an important part of the story to tell to the American people is that we have the clear hold-and-build strategy now which actually works, that was not our strategy before.

SNOW: The second thing to keep in mind when it comes to the clear, hold and build. The guys who are doing the holding and building are Iraqis. At the beginning of the surge there were exactly two police stations in all of Anbar province. That is right, two, with a couple of hundred cops. Now they are up to 30 with 7400 cops. What's going on? People there are now standing up and saying, okay, we know now that, as I said before, you've got our backs, but we'll step in here and we'll get on the front lines and so what is -- you know the thing that we actually undersold and did not fully appreciate ourselves is the kind of reaction this would have in the hearts and souls of Iraqis who, if you think about it, Glenn, these are the people again who have been watching Al-Queda butcher their own relatives. They finally said, to hell with this; we're not going to take it anymore. The tribal chiefs came to the coalition and said, we want to work with you guys; and by the way, we also have insurgent groups that have done that, we have combined forces going after some of the militias that have been fighting us. The most extraordinary thing going on in Iraq right now is a grassroots rebellion against terror, and one in which the Iraqis themselves are reaching out their hands to the United States saying, let's be partners here. That is an extraordinary thing because what it means is that the mission itself has gotten into the hearts and souls of everyday Iraqis and that's the kind of thing that you figure happens way at the end of the process but, in fact, it's probably the jet fuel that's going to make everything work.

GLENN: I have said since before this war started that I believed that Iraq was central to any kind of strategy to kill the real snake over in Iran.

SNOW: Yeah.

GLENN: And us gaining a foothold in Iraq is nothing but great, great news on trying to hold Iran or collapse Iran, if they have democracy. On both sides of them it's a great thing for us.

SNOW: Yes.

GLENN: Are you concerned at all -- I mean, I hate to use this. How can I phrase this in a way that you can actually answer this question.

SNOW: Well, you know what? I'll dance around it and answer it any way you phrase it. So just don't be bashful.

GLENN: Benjamin Netanyahu. I've talked to him six months ago. Now he looks like he is really gaining power.

SNOW: He's got himself back at the head of the Likud party.

GLENN: And he is a guy who's not going to mess around with Iran. How much time do you think we have before something has to happen over in Iran that could just complicate things like crazy?

SNOW: Well, I'll tell you. Here is the interesting thing about Iran, and this has been going on for years. If you take a look at the Iranian people, you find out that the vast majority are 40 years old and younger. And furthermore, that the vast majority of them are wildly pro American. They love us. You know, the last couple of run-ups to the World Cup, they have had this interesting phenomenon where they would have soccer riots after soccer matches. Funny thing about soccer riots that took place outside the stadiums, people came around with American flags. You have got the basis of a rabidly pro American group of people. I often say when I'm giving speeches, the average Iranian is more pro American than the average college faculty in the United States. The point is that they love us, they love our values. What they want are some signs of national pride. Like they want to be able to have their own civilian nuclear power and all that. They don't like the Mullahs, they are not all that crazy about Ramadi, so what you have is a challenge of trying to support and build on that underlying strength in such a way that you do not, through some sort of -- that you do not turn them into anti-American patriots at any juncture. You want to figure out how to make the most of that great resource.

The other thing that you do is you apply a lot of pressure to Iran maybe in ways that aren't so obvious, economic pressure. You know, the North Koreans finally came crawling back to the table and they shut down the Pyongyang reactor. Why? Because we put the squeeze on them financially and we've been sort of turning the spigot when it comes to the Iranians. So there are a lot of things that we can do.

GLENN: Is labeling Hamas or -- I'm sorry, -- the revolutionary guard corps terrorist, is that a precursor to anything?

SNOW: No. And by the way, that story, going to push back a little bit. That story's not quite accurate but it is clear that the revolutionary guard are certainly no friends of democracy. Ask anybody who lives in Iran and the so-called Quds forces which answer to the revolutionary guard have been sending individuals over and they have been sending weaponry into Iraq and they're a problem. And Ambassador Crocker made that very clear in talking to an Iranian counterpart recently. The so Iranians have got to make a decision about whether they want to be part of the solution or they want to continue to be part of the problem in Iraq. And again we've got lots of tools that we can use. We're going to use them.

GLENN: So what is inaccurate here? The state department has decided that they are going to label them.

SNOW: No, that decision has not formally been made yet, at least to my understanding.

GLENN: Is the White House for it or against it?

SNOW: I think at this point, you know, it's either way. What you are really doing is talking about the obvious which is that you've got some people doing some very bad stuff there. Iran has been the number one --

GLENN: Yeah, but you know labels make a huge difference, especially with George Bush and what is called the Bush doctrine.

SNOW: Well, you know what, the Bush doctrine actually precedes, whether or not you are providing labels and I'm just telling you the decision at this point to do the official designation is something that people at higher levels than the mere humble press secretary are still debating. So I'll let them work through it but the fact is we're resisting the Quds forces. We find these guys in Iraq trying to fight our guys, we're going to treat them just like enemy combatants. If we capture them on the field, we're going to try to get intelligence about what's going on. So make no mistake about it. The United States is defending ourselves and we are also sending very clear messages through any number of channels to the Iranians. Look what we said to the Iranians is we're going to offer you prosperity, integration into the world community and all that stuff. You want to pass up the greatest deal, we're going to make sure your people know also that you are passing up the greatest deal and they are going to ask the question, why.

GLENN: Tony, I have a new theory that I'm going to be expressing to the audience here in a few minutes on -- you know, in World War II we had the media and we had movies.

SNOW: Right.

GLENN: -- teach us about how bad the Nazis were.

SNOW: Right.

GLENN: In fact, they are still making movies where Nazis are the bad guys.

SNOW: Right.

GLENN: But we can get anything where Islamic extremists are the bad guys and I've been reading a few novels lately, something I haven't done because I just haven't had time in some time. I read on vacation something by Daniel Silva. It's called The Secret Servant and it is all about Muslim extremists over in Europe and an American ambassador and his daughter is kidnapped and it's a great read. But in it, it made me hesitate for a minute on something that Bill Clinton started and that was, "Oh, you don't want to talk to us? Well, we're not going to torture you. Here, why don't you -- here's a one-way ticket to Egypt." And it talked about how the street looks at these evil regimes over in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia on the top of my list and we're in bed with them and how the people on the street look at this and say America doesn't stand for anything; they are making these guys torture, you know, the people on the street because they won't do it. But Saudi Arabia will or Egypt will. Why will we not -- convince me that we should be in bed with Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

SNOW: Well, a couple of reasons. First, I don't know how you make the jump from torture and all that stuff. Let me make clear very quickly on policy. We don't torture, we don't send people to places where they can be tortured. Secondly -- we don't do those kind of renditions and I'll let the lawyers talk through it.

GLENN: Okay.

SNOW: Secondly, what you have, what we're trying to build right now is the ability to have influence over people. You know, we need all the friends we can get. The Egyptians have been helpful on a number of fronts in terms of intelligence and support and so have the Saudis. Yeah, they've got problems and we have made clear what some of our problems are. It's not that we put on the blinkers and ignore the difficulties in the relationship. We've got some very honest relations. The new ambassador, al-Jubair who has been here in Washington for many years, somebody who is here at the White House. He understands the United States, he understands what the interests are. In the long run what you want to do is use Iraq as your focal point so that everybody understands that democracy can work in the region and democracy is the only way to proceed. You've got little tiny fledgling democracy movements in places like Kuwait where they are expanding the franchise and that sort of thing. Small victories but important ones. What I'm telling you is you don't want these people as your enemies.

GLENN: Well, I think they are our enemies. They are funneling money into the United States like it's nobody's business.

SNOW: There continue to be conversations about, you know, it's not official government stuff; you have individuals who are doing it.

GLENN: Right.

SNOW: You know, I hate to be drawing fine distinctions but fine distinctions matter because in the end it also gives you the ability to work with the government to go after some of these folks and as you've seen on a number of occasions, the Saudis, when they sort of train their focus on some of the bad guys, especially Al-Queda, they're pretty effective at going after them.

GLENN: The problem, however, is you know and I know that a regime is most dangerous when it is in collapse. Saudi Arabia and governments like that, if democracy works, do you believe they can make a peaceful transition to -- because if democracy -- democracy will grow.

SNOW: Yeah.

GLENN: Freedom will grow. I mean, that's the parole plan of the President.

SNOW: Right.

GLENN: Saudi Arabia doesn't exist in its current form.

SNOW: In other words are you asking me, the American Revolution or the French revolution. It depends. You know, if you build the system where the government itself ends up being the vehicle by which democracy takes root, you land the basis of doing this sort of thing peacefully. If it has to -- you know, if you have a bottom-up revolution where people go after it, those are the kinds of situations that turn out to be bloody. Obviously we're encouraging governments in the region to move as they can toward embracing democracy because history tells you the alternative that when you have something like the French Revolution which the, quote, democracy is achieved by the force of arms, a lot of times that can lead to bloody chaos.

GLENN: One last comment. Do you want to make any comment about Barack Obama saying that we are bombing civilians in Iraq?

SNOW: You know, I will let him defend his comments in public. I think he's got plenty of folks pushing back against him.

GLENN: Unbelievable stuff. Thank you very much, Tony.

SNOW: Glenn, thank you.

END TRANSCRIPT