|
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
GLENN: Let's go
right to Senator Rick Santorum. Hello, Rick. How are you,
sir?
SENATOR SANTORUM: I'm doing great, Glenn. How are you this
morning?
GLENN: What do you predict the weasels in Washington are
going to do?
 SENATOR
SANTORUM: Well, I'm actually up here on the Hill right now
-- talking to some of the weasels -- I've been talking to
some of the senators. You know, everybody tells me it's
going to be very, very close and, you know, I'm hearing the
expectation is this bill's going to go down today but it's
going to be very close.
GLENN: Now, here's the thing. I've got a new motto. It helps
me understand so many people and that is eagles may fly high
but weasels are never sucked into jet engines. It doesn't
work on this particular bill because these weasels are going
to be sucked into a jet engine. America -- if they pass this
thing, America is not going to forgive them or forget. Am I
wrong?
SENATOR SANTORUM: No, I think you're absolutely right. In
fact, I talked to several of the remembers, as I mentioned,
today and they are absolutely hearing it from the American
public. They know that they are on thin ice on this vote,
and I think some of the members who voted to proceed to the
bill this week, with the hope that there could be some
amendments offered and change it in a way that could make
it, you know, palatable to the public. In fact, if anything,
from the standpoint of most Americans this bill has gotten
worse as a result of an amendment that was passed yesterday.
I think there's probably ample reason for enough members to
walk away from going to file passage on the bill and as a
result I think, you know, it's more likely than not, at
least from my gut is that this will go down today.
GLENN: Give me, give me an idea of what was passed yesterday
that made it worse.
SENATOR SANTORUM: It was the real ID provision that
basically stripped out the real ID provision for some of the
biometrics, the identification card that's Senator Baucus'
amendment. That, you know, sort of hampers enforcement if
you don't have a real ID and you don't have any kind of
enforceable ID, it makes it more difficult.
GLENN: And why did we tube the real ID?
SENATOR SANTORUM: That's a good question. I would assume
because, you know, there are people who don't like national
identity cards, people don't like the Government knowing
things about them and there's always that rub and it's
conservative as well as, it's a left-right issue and so this
is more of a quote privacy issue versus a security issue. In
this case the privacy won out over the security.
GLENN: Rick, the Secure Fence Act of 2006 that passed with
the Department of Homeland Security, it required the
Department of Homeland Security to add 18,000 border patrol
agents by the end of 2008. There's no way in hell we're
going to make that. The Senate legislation adds 2,000 new
agents to this total. However, the 2006 bill required
construction of over 700 miles of border fence.
SENATOR SANTORUM: Right.
GLENN: This bill actually is only requiring 370 miles of
fence which -- so in other words, we've gone down in fence.
And I talked to Tony Snow yesterday and I said, how do you
expect the American people to believe that you guys are
going to do anything? We already have, you know, in the --
it's already passed in law, it's already -- the money is
there, you've already financed this fence. You say you're
building it, but this one, this new bill actually reduces
the size of that fence, and he didn't get it. How is it that
the guys in Washington just don't understand that you're not
-- you know, they say to us that, you know, we've got to
have something here, we're just trying to -- we're trying to
do something and this is a good compromise. We don't want to
hear about anything else at this point except security.
We'll talk about it once we believe you actually believe
like we do that you will secure the country and secure the
borders. How is it they miss that?
SENATOR SANTORUM: Well, they missed the fact that the
federal government, Republicans and Democrats, have no
credibility on border security, and as long as the American
public believes that the folks in Washington are not serious
about stopping this, whether it's not building the fence or
not having sufficient border patrols or not doing sufficient
internal enforcement of catching people that we know, are
here illegally and sending them back or even going through
that process, then it's hard to convince Americans that
whatever they pass to, quote, beef up enforcement as a way
to get the rest of this bill passed is just more of the
same, which is no real beefed-up enforcement, and a path for
citizenship for people who are here and a welcome mat for
others to come and do likewise, and that's the real problem
here, and I would argue that we do need a bill to do some
things, particularly to improve internal enforcement here in
the United States and that we should be trying to pass a
bill that gets us a more secure border and a better process
here on how to identify and deal with people who are already
in this country, and if we could accomplish that, then we
can -- then I think we have the credibility to go back to
the American people and say, see, we've got our act
together, you know, we've cleaned up the system here and now
we have needs. You know, we have worker shortages we need to
deal with and we have to have a temporary worker Pam that
allows people to come in here and work for a period of time
and go back, you know, and those types of things. But it's a
two-step process, not a one-step process and the reason it's
not a one-step process is because nobody believes that the
first step will be done and we will just go directly to the
second step.
GLENN: What is the next step? If this thing passes today,
what happens? It goes right to the President's -- no, it has
to go to the House, right?
SENATOR SANTORUM: Right. The House will without question
pass a different bill, if they pass any bill. You have to
understand that 2/3 of the United States Senate is not up
for re-election and that are very much insulated in this
debate. I mean, folks who got elected in 2006 don't have to
stand before the public for six more years and as we all
know, Glenn, in six years, you know, immigration may be --
you know, may not even be an issue six years from now and so
if they're not feeling any heat at all, they're doing what
they want to do. As opposed to a member of congress on the
House side who's up, you know, every two years and has to
face the music in 2008 and I think that the calls and the
letters and the public outcry that we're seeing on this bill
in the Senate is going to have a bigger impact in the House
than it will in the Senate and I think we'll see that and I
think it will make it very unlikely that the House will pass
any kind of comprehensive bill.
GLENN: Rick, have you seen any change -- I was having a
conversation with somebody yesterday and they said, you
know, how do you think the Republicans and the Democrats are
going to do in '08, et cetera, et cetera and I said, you
know what, I have to tell you I have not seen the Road to
Damascus moment yet for the Republicans. You know, Jesus
appeared to them at last election and said, we really think
that you should go home now, and you know, they fell to
their knees and said, oh, how could we have possibly lost.
And you would think that they would get it and change their
behavior, but I haven't seen it yet. I've seen a lot of lip
service but I don't think these Republicans still get it.
SENATOR SANTORUM: I mean, most Republicans viewed what
happened in the last election as a repudiation of the
President and our policy and conduct of the war in Iraq.
GLENN: It wasn't. It wasn't just that. It was the whole kit
and caboodle.
SENATOR SANTORUM: I understand that, and having been there
and experienced that, I would agree with you. It was not
just that, but I do believe that that was the overwhelming
message that most Republicans took away from the last
election and as a result, what you're seeing is a very timid
and weak Republican response to the threats that we're
facing now in Iraq. You're seeing our own leader of the
Senate, you know, almost agree with a September judgment
date as to whether the surge is going to work, you see the
ranking member of the armed service -- excuse me, of the
foreign relations committee out there saying, you know, --
sounding like Harry Reid in that, you know, the surge is not
working and it cannot work given the time frame.
You know, you're seeing Republicans listening to the
electorate, weary of them and trying to get on the right
side of them instead of, in my opinion, making the argument
for -- to the American public as to why we need to do
something different than what the President's done but still
go out there and confront this enemy, which is a dangerous
one.
BECK: I mean, how do you even -- how do you even make a case
as the surge isn't working when the surge isn't going to be
fully staffed until next week?
SENATOR SANTORUM: Well, in defense of Senator Luger, his
comment is that it can't work until September and if that,
he's right. Of course it can't work until September because
it would only be in place for a couple of months and so he's
saying something that's obvious, but I think what he's also
saying is they only have it until September and my big
concern is that both sides have sort of set an artificial
time line as to when this surge has to either fail or has to
succeed and if it does it by that point, you know, where --
we're not going to continue to support the President and
these troop levels. It's a prescription for failure and, you
know, Luger may be simply stating the obvious but in stating
the obvious he's undermined our ability to sustain this
beyond September.
GLENN: Let me just run a couple of ideas here by because you
and I are of like mind on what's happening over in the
middle east and I just wanted to run some thoughts by, think
out loud here and you tell me where you think I'm wrong.
The riots in Iran, this is the beginning of us putting the
screws to Iran through us, you know, kind of playing a heavy
hand with Japan and also Canada in saying do not sell them
any equipment to be able to get their own oil out of the
ground and be able to refine that. There are riots in the
street. I believe two things are going to happen here, Rick,
that are kind of frightening.
One, this could -- President Ahmadimejad could be used as a
scapegoat by the Ayatollah which would allow the regime to
stay in place but the rest of the weasels in the world go,
oh, see, the bad guy's gone. Right or wrong on that?
SENATOR SANTORUM: Well, they did that once. I mean, if you
recall, they put this, quote, reformer Khatami who was
considered, this was the man who succeeded I believe
Rafsanjani and he was considered a moderate, a reformer and
that the regime was -- because things were not popular for
the regime at the time, he was considered someone that, you
know, could change the country and help it involve away from
its more radical roots and, of course, it was --
GLENN: A lie.
SENATOR SANTORUM: It was a lie. And, of course, the most
crackdowns that we saw the last few years in Iran up until
recently occurred under Khatami when the students thought,
oh, well, we've got a reformer, we can start exercising
freedom, we can start protesting and dissenting and they
were crushed and Khatami sat on the sidelines and did
nothing or quietly assented to what was going on. So, you
know, they may try to go through that again but don't --
keep your eye on the ball. The bottom line is that the
Ayatollahs are controlling things there that they have the
security forces in place to do that, they have support,
particularly within the country outside of the major cities,
in the rural areas, which is still vitally important in
maintaining control of Iran and that while they may have
some (inaudible) of allowing some political dissent or
shuffling the deck of leaders, you know, I don't see it as
any foundational change of what we see in Iran and they're
going to continue to pursue their anti-Western behavior.
GLENN: I didn't mean it that way. I just meant that the
weasels, the stupid people, the media honestly and those
politicians that would find it convenient would then say,
you know, the UN, see, this is great, they're going to
change, but it would buy them more time and nothing would
change.
SENATOR SANTORUM: It will be a validation that, you see,
engaging Iran makes the difference and Bush talking to Iran
makes the difference. Let me just -- it will make absolutely
no difference. What we are doing by engaging Iran is
undermining those people who are out there protesting right
now, who want to see a change in the Government. By engaging
the Government and validating the Government, we undermine
any real opportunity for a Democratic change within the
country and, you know, now it's -- we're going to have to be
much more proactive in fostering Democratic reform and
dissent within the country. We should be embracing these
protests in Iran. We should be embracing any kind of
dissidents and supporting them, and to let's be -- I'll be
honest with the public. I mean, we are not -- I mean, we
passed $75 million to fund pro democracy, both in supporting
groups within Iran to cause, you know, Democratic reforms
within Iran as well as outside groups to help foster that
and, you know, Iran is cracking down on these groups right
now saying these are all supported by America and this is
America trying to undermine us and the bottom line is none
of these groups have received penny one. The state
department has shut the door on every single one of these
groups. Yet Iran as a government is claiming they got money
as an excuse to do it. So it's the worst-case scenario for
these dissident groups. They are getting no money but
they're being hammered because the money's there for them to
get even though they're not getting any money.
GLENN: Real quick because I've only got about 30 seconds
here. Chavez is over in Russia today. Do you think he's
going to help out and send over gasoline to Iran?
SENATOR SANTORUM: Well, this is a guy just, you know, said
he was going to declare war on the United States the other
day. I mean, you know, he is now the mouthpiece of the
anti-American sentiment of which Russia is as much as the
President would like to say Vladimir is his friend, Russia
is very quietly in that chorus of part of the anti-American
mood around the world and is trying to capitalize on seeing
a diminished American presence around the world. So I think
he'll find a very receptive welcome in Russia and a lot of
business to be done there.
GLENN: And finally, yes or no, do you believe that John
Bolton is right, that military is really one of the only
options left on the table?
SENATOR SANTORUM: Well, I mean, I love John Bolton. In fact,
I just had dinner with him a couple of nights ago. I do
believe there's opportunities, if you're talking about Iran,
that I do believe there's opportunities in Iran. There is a
very strong pro Western sentiment within the people of Iran
and we have simply refused to tap into that and it's because
we have a state department that in my opinion is doing
everything they can to undermine the policies of this
administration.
GLENN: Rick Santorum, thanks, man. Appreciate it. I hope
you're right about immigration in the immigration bill
today. We'll talk to you again.
END TRANSCRIPT |
|
Related Audio
|
|
